Ozma

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Re: Ozma

Postby Helen Fayle » Wed May 02, 2012 8:17 pm

animekritik wrote:I did hear about the masked Harlock in Danguard. I guess I should sit down and read that manga, it's relatively short.

Danguard is featuring prominently in this new Leiji renaissance (the Mahoroba film will have elements of it as well).

I know the actual robot only shows up at the end in the Danguard manga, but does the Jasdam ship show in the manga at all? Hmmm...I'd kill to see websites for the CG Harlock and Mahoroba film projects today.


I'm rereading DA at the moment - yes, Jasdam is a major part (more than the robot...!) it starts out as the base - a bit like that massive ark ship in QM (which has elements that first appear in DA...)

I notice there's a "Haaken" listed in the cast... there's a Tony Harken/Haaken in the DA anime, but he's on the wrong side IIRC.

I'm kind of expecting the other ships to show up - Yamato, Arcadia, Queen Emeraldas... (and I put in a vote for Big One and Flame Swallow!!)They've been showing up (sans cast!) in all of the recent manga that seem to be heading towards the same Darqueen confrontation - at least, we've seen those Escher-type black spiral ships in them...
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Re: Ozma

Postby animekritik » Wed May 02, 2012 8:57 pm

Haaken in those lists I think is a misspelling of Hagen, as in Ring of the Nibelung Hagen.

It'd be great to see Yamato & co. Yamato & Mahoroba are sister ships so they should show up together...once more though the question of copyrights comes to the fore. if leiji manages to make the yamato show up with crew and all the bells and whistles it'll be the talk of the town :P
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Re: Ozma

Postby iskra » Thu May 03, 2012 9:45 pm

Helen Fayle wrote:Not sure if it's relevant but Theseus was supposed to have been the ruler who introduced democracy to Athens and brought in a golden age - prior to that he was part of a regular tribute to Crete of young men and women who (historically) were probably forced to perform in the bull-dancing contests (mythologically, sacrificed to the minotaur). Perhaps this is a subtle reference to the ICs kidnapping of young Natura and stealing their bodies??


I thought about the Greek Theseus, but he was the hero that actually saved those men and women! Unless it's indeed a subtle reference to the fable that the knight who kills the dragon often starts growing scales and tail himself. The mask comes in handy again (maybe I'm making it all up on the spot, but I think I read it somewhere that the bull's head was a ritual mask).

Re: ships, did we discuss this?
vlcsnap-2010-10-23-17h27m06s0.png
vlcsnap-2010-10-23-17h27m06s0.png (281.84 KiB) Viewed 54403 times

A snapshot from Queen Emeraldas OVA, but isn't it Yamato to the right of the Deathshadow?
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Re: Ozma

Postby animekritik » Thu May 03, 2012 11:07 pm

I guess Theseus is supposed to have pretended to be an innocent victim so he could take the Minotaur out (according to Wikipedia).


That is the Yamato!! Haha, sneaky, sneaky~

Cornponeflicks says:

"The first episode also includes a scene of Tochiro and Emeraldas in a huge hangar containing the Queen Emeraldas, the Deathshadow, and the Yamato, the presence of which is never explained or even mentioned."

From the second to last paragraph here: http://www.cornponeflicks.org/harlock/999.html
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Re: Ozma

Postby Helen Fayle » Fri May 04, 2012 12:15 pm

iskra wrote:
I thought about the Greek Theseus, but he was the hero that actually saved those men and women! Unless it's indeed a subtle reference to the fable that the knight who kills the dragon often starts growing scales and tail himself. The mask comes in handy again (maybe I'm making it all up on the spot, but I think I read it somewhere that the bull's head was a ritual mask).


Saved the tribute, killed the beast but betrayed the woman who helped him (Ariadne, who led him into the Labyrinth) and later caused his father to throw himself off a cliff because he forgot to put up the "it's ok we're coming back alive" sails...! Later has his own son murdered for sleeping with his trophy wife, and generally doesn't end up quite as heroic in his old age (rather like Jason...)

There are parallels with other Leiji mythology referencing, if obliquely, classical heroes: - in SPCH Harlock's very like Jason - even down to the "clashing rocks" trap (with added skanky-ho mazone twins! <g>), and of course as a representation of the classic female anima-menace the Mazone ARE the sirens/dryads/rhinemaidens of myth - not lost on Rin Taro who makes a lot of use of the legends! Then of course the's the "Ulysess nebula"...

...which brings me to Endless Odyssey, and the one question I want to ask Rin Taro: Did he have Tennyson's "Ulysses" in mind when he put this together with Murai?? Harlock certainly fits the image of the weary hero/seafarer considering the past glories and reflecting on one last voyage...

Consider:

I cannot rest from travel: I will drink
Life to the lees: all times I have enjoyed
Greatly, have suffered greatly, both with those
That loved me, and alone
---
I am become a name;
For always roaming with a hungry heart
---
I am a part of all that I have met;
Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough
Gleams that untravelled world, whose margin fades
For ever and for ever when I move.

How dull it is to pause, to make an end,
To rust unburnished, not to shine in use!
As though to breathe were life. Life piled on life
Were all too little, and of one to me
Little remains: but every hour is saved
From that eternal silence,

---

And this grey spirit yearning in desire
To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.

And further on:

Old age hath yet his honour and his toil;
Death closes all: but something ere the end,
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
---
Come, my friends,
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down:
It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew

Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

I'll not comment on the text - I think everyone here can draw their own conclusions well enough to debate this! - perhaps we need another thread? <g>) To me Tennyson was the first thing that came to mind watching Harlock in this...

But I WAS reminded by that last episode of a chapter from Homer - where Odysseus visits the land of the dead to get information from (IIRC the shade of a comrade) and pours out a libation of blood to call the spirits to him! (If we'd seen Harlock do his trademark pouring a bottle over Tochiro's grave in this the symmetry would have been obvious - but I wonder... I REALLY wonder!!)

Dragging this belatedly back on topic - even if we don't have 'Theseus' as a character per se in Ozuma, perhaps there is a resonance with the myth that maybe we're supposed to pick up? Parallels and images that sing out to those who can see them, and not detract from the story for those who don't?

I'm probably over-analysing... as it happens mythical resonance is something of a hobby-horse of mine, in study and especially in my own writing - I know *I* would put in enough hidden meanings to sink a battleship - especially when it comes to names, so maybe I'm just reading too much into someone else's work! Who knows?!

Perhaps at the end of the day it's simply what Shelley (Percy) called "the spirit of the age" wherein it's simply a matter of people with similar reading/educational backgrounds simply picking up on the same themes, rather than a deliberate attempt to USE those themes.

BTW - for those interested in a historical re-telling of the Theseus story, I recommend Mary Renault's wonderful Bull from the Sea/The King must die duology. For the mythical take, try Graves Greek Myths (with footnotes!) - and Graves again for Jason "The Golden Fleece"...
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Re: Ozma

Postby animekritik » Fri May 04, 2012 5:42 pm

Check out the new thread for this..
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